TOPICS: Comments by Sayyid Abdullah Almusawi, Tony Abbott; Australian values, inaction by Albanese Labor Government on antisemitism, free speech, Faruqi v Hanson appeal, section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act

MacPherson  

An Australian Muslim cleric now living and preaching in Iran has offered a rather novel interpretation of the Holocaust. According to Sayyid Abdullah Almusawi, we shouldn't blame Adolf Hitler for gassing the Jews. We should blame the Jews for Hitler gassing the Jews because, according to Almusawi, the Jews deliberately provoked Hitler so they could be deported to the Middle East and establish their own state on Palestinian land. The cleric who used to preach regularly at a Melbourne mosque before moving to Iran told those listening to his podcast that they shouldn't worry about the Jews because although the Jews were the most corrupt and vile people on earth, they would soon be destroyed, according to Islamic prophecy. Almusawi said his comments were not designed to incite hate or anti-Semitism, and nor were they comments of just his personal opinion. No, no. According to a report in today's paper, he said his comments were, and I quote, an educational discussion discussing the Quran and the opinion of prominent Islamic scholars. Well, consider yourself educated. Now, of course, not all Muslims will agree with this cleric's teaching of the Quran, or at least I'm assuming that. I haven't been able to find any record of Muslim leaders disowning this guy or his comments. I'm sure they would if they were asked, but drew my mind to a recent interview Tony Abbott gave. Take a listen.

Abbott  

I don't believe we should have an immigration policy that discriminates on the basis of race or religion, but we certainly should have one that is discriminatory on the basis of values.

MacPherson  

Now I like Tony Abbott, but frankly, that was silly. Firstly, I don't know why he insists on conflating race and religion. They're two entirely different things. Race is something you're born with; you have no say over it. Religion, well, that's not inherent. It's a set of values that you choose. Therefore, in my view, they should not have the same protection from discrimination as race, which leads me to my second criticism of Abbott in that clip, he says we shouldn't discriminate on the basis of religion, but we should discriminate on the basis of values. Well, what is religion except a set of values? And as if to prove the point, listen to Tony Abbott as he goes on to explain the kind of values we should, in his opinion, discriminate against.

Abbott  

Now, if you believe in a global caliphate, if you believe in Sharia law, if you believe in death to the infidel, if you believe in a privileged place for one religion over other religions, if you believe in a privileged place for one political party over other political parties, well then, this is not the country for you.

MacPherson  

That sounds to me like he's describing an extremist version of a religion. Joining me now is Nationals MP Anne Webster, and is it realistic to say that we're not going to discriminate on the grounds of religion, but we will discriminate on the grounds of values. Can you really separate those two things?

Webster  

Well, I think you know your earlier point that there are Muslims who are radical Islamists, and then there are Muslims who don't hold those views. I think the whole division around religion is really fraught. The values that Angus Taylor himself has spoken about, and the Coalition has spoken about, is that we want to bring in people into Australia who accept and embrace Australian values, and they're not to want to see death to anyone. It is about living in harmony with one another and the values of freedom of religion and freedom of speech, etc. These are values as part of our democracy that we embrace, and we want those who come in to also embrace.

MacPherson  

As I said earlier, Almusawi apparently spent years preaching in Melbourne before moving to Iran and making these comments. Does that raise questions about what is being preached in Australian mosques, and should the government, in your view, be doing more to know what is being said?

Webster  

Well, I absolutely believe the government should be doing more after October 7, on October the 9th, in fact, when that awful vile protest was taking place on the steps of the Opera House, we heard basically nothing from the Prime Minister, from the Labor government, and from then on, we had hate preachers who were being filmed in their mosques. So, there was evidence there that they were saying that there should be death to the infidel, and you know other horrible, vile chants to about Jewish people, and our people who are doing work in this space are those who are checking on secrecy, who know what is going on, and our spy agencies, our police force, they need to be empowered and they need to be doing more. And that ultimately, the government has to be held to account for what is not taking place, to stamp this out.

MacPherson  

I mentioned earlier that Pauline Hanson is appealing to the High Court to have the judgement that she racially vilified Mehreen Faruqi overturned. Do you hope Pauline Hanson wins?

Webster  

Well, I think free speech is something that we and The Nationals are very passionate about. Last weekend, the weekend before, actually, the federal conference took place for The Nationals, and there was a motion that was pretty well unanimously voted for that said that we need to ensure that free speech is upheld in Australia. I was - at the time, the Mehreen Faruqi statement and her statements about our Queen, who had been our reigning monarch for decades, was highly revered, highly respected - I thought her statements were appalling. So, you know, free speech is free speech until you become really quite ugly about it, and the courts certainly need to deal with this appeal very carefully.

MacPherson  

So, just in a single word, do you hope Pauline Hanson wins?

Webster  

Oh, I hope that free speech is upheld, and I think that the statement by Pauline about migrants. I mean, she was talking about Mehreen Faruqi, obviously, but I think people who come to this country, who are able to buy houses, in her case, are able to become politicians, able to enjoy the fruits of the democracy that Australia is, should respect that. If they don't respect that, then you know, questions should be asked. So, I think we'll see what happens with Pauline.

MacPherson  

I think you were trying to say you hope she wins without coming out and actually saying you hope she wins. Tony Abbott has said Section 18C of the Race Discrimination Act is a problem. Here he was yesterday.

Abbott  

Of course, we all believe in free speech. Certainly, on the conservative side of politics, we all believe in free speech. And frankly, Section 18C as currently constituted is a risk to free speech, as we're seeing. it

MacPherson  

Is there an appetite within the Coalition to have another crack at getting rid of, or at least reforming 18C?

Webster  

Well, I'm not hearing about it at the moment. It's not to say that it isn't happening and that discussions are not taking place, they could well be taking place, but you know, free speech is something, as I said, the National Party is absolutely wanting to see upheld, and at the moment, 18C really is about race and race and ethnicity. And so, you know, should there be more? I don't want to see us as a nation bound by law and afraid to say the things that we want to say? How can we have debate? How can we have conversation if everything that we say we're worried about stepping over the line?

MacPherson  

Anne Webster, I think what I hear you saying is you hope Pauline Hanson wins, and you would like 18C to be gone, but you don't want to say either of those two things. That's what I think you've just said. I appreciate you coming on the show tonight. Thanks so much.

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