Shadow Minister for Regional Development, Local Government and Territories, Shadow Minister for Regional Communications - Transcript - ABC Victoria - Thursday 15 January 2026

‍DR ANNE WEBSTER MP

SHADOW MINISTER FOR REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT, LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND TERRITORIES
SHADOW MINISTER FOR REGIONAL COMMUNICATIONS

FEDERAL MEMBER FOR MALLEE

TOPICS: Natimuk bushfire, eligibility for funding support, bureaucracy failure to assess on the ground, climate change, hate speech, omnibus bill, Royal Commission on antisemitism, consultation and secrecy, retrospective laws, freedom of speech, Coalition party policy positions

Aly

You would have heard of the Natimuk fire along the way, Natimuk belongs or is within the federal seat of Mallee. The MP for that seat is a Nationals MP by the name of Dr Anne Webster, who's been good enough to join me now she's also the Shadow Minister for Regional Development and Communications. Dr Webster. Thank you very much for joining me.

Webster

Thank you for having me Waleed.

Aly

So, lots to discuss. There are the political questions as well to do with hate speech legislation. I want to get to that in a second, but I think it's best and most appropriate to start with the fires. Natimuk is within your area. It's a small town, but it was hit, by everything I've read, quite hard, how the people doing?

Webster

I was down in Natimuk on Monday, and the fire's still not out entirely. I think the rage of this fire obviously impacted by high winds and high temperatures ... what's phenomenal to me is to walk down the main street, and to see that one house has been - it looks like it's just been dropped to the ground in ash with a Hills Hoist left in the yard - the next house is in completely good order. The next house has been dropped to the ground with a chimney left ... like, it's just extraordinary the devastation, and it has just been ... you can't pick and choose. You'd think that a fire would just rage straight through the main street, but that's not how it worked, and it was fast and furious. And yeah, heaps of people impacted. So many people in tears, of course, many people still in shock. And yeah, it's many of them. CFA volunteers themselves, as you say, they came home to find their place was destroyed. So it's been a really, really incredibly tough time. Continues to be a tough time, and I really feel for the Longwood fire area because their losses have just been - I mean, you can say loss is loss, let's face it. But you know, the the amount of devastation over in that area of Euroa is just wow, really incredible.

Aly

The government, so, federal and state have announced a support package. I think $20 million was the initial amounts. A lot of that going towards mental health. I don't know if you've had a chance to look through that package and form a view of it. Is it enough? Is it the right thing? Does there need to be more? What sort of support you think is necessary?

Webster

Look, I think, as your news report showed, Annabelle Cleeland talking about 50 people who have lost their homes, they've got nothing, and yet they can't access the funds. I mean, what the hell? Seriously, this is bureaucratic rubbish. People with pen pushing in the cities making decisions about who should get what, they need to go out there and make assessments on the ground, and that is the constant frustration that we have. You know, we live too far away for people to actually make that effort. It's not good enough, and people in the country are frequently short-changed. I've spoken to farmers who have sheep wandering now because they've got no fences, the sheep that are left alive are wandering. They've got to try and keep them together by providing hay in the middle of the paddock, and hope they don't go to the highway. It's going to take a long time to rebuild, let alone the – now what are we up to? Over 200 or 350 houses? I think I read 350 houses across Victoria that need to be rebuilt. Well, our current building of our housing supply is so slow and out in the regions much harder because we don't have the tradies out there. How's this going to happen? You know, I don't believe that government should do everything. I’m a strong believer in people's autonomy and their ability to get on and do their own thing, live their lives, but assistance in a time like this just has to happen.

Aly

I should point out, by the way, I'm getting texts correcting me on my pronunciation. Natimuk, not Natty Mook. Thank you very much for that correction. I do appreciate it. The other text that I get on this topic, on this story and have over the past few days, is concerning the role of climate change here. And we know we're seeing these fires more and more. They are incredibly devastating. We haven't ... we don't really talk about climate change that much in the aftermath of these things, perhaps as much as well. Certainly, some listeners say that we should, is it time for us to take climate change a little bit more seriously in Australia?

Webster

Oh, look, I think the more important question right now, and certainly one that I have put before Jacinta Allen, is that Victorian State laws, which have prohibited the roadside clearing - you want go to my Facebook page, I did a piece of media on this very issue that you know, when I was a kid, I could go out with my dad legally and collect firewood, helping to clear the fuel load on the sides of the roads, the farmers used to be able to clear around their properties, providing those fire breaks, cattle were allowed to roam into our national national parks to help keep the fuel load. These are common sense solutions that have actually been banned and Waleed ...

Aly

... What do you mean? You mean ...

Webster

... Well, if you keep the ... so, if you keep the fuel load down, then the fires are not as ferocious. Yes, these were grass fires. We understand that. And there's a whole bunch of commentary I could give you on the state of the CFA resources, which mean they can't go into these grass fires. They're advised not to go into the grass fires and they say, well, how the hell are we going to put these grass fires out if we can't? But a lot of it also has to do with how quickly it travelled, like I had the local saying to me, the fire ripped through beside the creek because the creek has so much growth alongside. So it is, it has to be part of the discussion. Yes, you can get into climate change if that's what you want to do.

Aly

But I'm not asking about what I want to do. I'm interested in whether it's government part of the thing or not.

Webster

I - it's not as important as getting these laws right and the because no matter what we what we do in terms of the impact, I mean, this is such an old argument, terms of the impact we're going to make to the temperatures in Australia, this is not what is going to solve our fire situations. We're always going, it's a global problem, and you know all that. But the point is, we should be able to mitigate the risks of these incredibly severe fires that we're seeing, and we used to do that better. We're not doing it as well.

Ali

Now we're speaking with Dr Anne Webster, Nationals MP for Mallee, which has within it Natimuk, which is one of the towns that was really hit hard by the fires that we've had in Victoria this week. This is in the federal parliament, she's also the Shadow Minister for Regional Development and Communications, just before I move on to the hate speech bill and the ABC is reporting that some people affected by the Harcourt fire aren't eligible for government assistance. Have you heard of that happening, happening in the Wimmera?

Webster

I have not. In fact, it was when I heard in your news report from Annabelle that there are people in her electorate who can't access it. I'm going to go back to my shires now and ask the question, because I've not heard that. I would be mortified if that's the case. These people have been through hell and back this week, and to find you know they're not eligible? You know, what are the reasons that they're not eligible because they've got assets worth, you know, I don't know in the millions, because they own thousands of hectares of grass ... you know, what do you call it? ... Cropland? That doesn't mean that they've got funding to be able to rebuild a house or rebuild fences themselves at this point in time. They still need to be able to put food in their mouths and stay somewhere. While the federal and state government have given people 28 days in a hotel, that doesn't cut it, I think what warmed my heart in on Monday, when I was meeting with locals and talking with them, was that people were inviting people to come and live in their home or live in their, you know, back shack, or whatever it might be, people were opening up their homes locally to try and find local solutions. That is fantastic. Not everybody can access that.

Aly

Of course, I'm sure the ABC will keep their eye on that as that story develops as well. All right, let's talk about the hate speech legislation that is coming before the parliament. You've been asked to go back early so you're there .. you are next week, you'll be in Canberra looking at this, all the signs are that the Coalition is going to vote against it, having called very stridently for stronger hate speech laws. What's your objection?

Webster

I have lots of objections. One of the one of my objections is about the process normally, with something as huge as this omnibus bill, which frankly should have been separated gun laws should never been part of this hate speech legislation. The fact is that the Prime Minister has finally called a Royal Commission, my view is that we should be delaying any legislation until that Royal Commission has been complated.

Aly

Didn't you ask for parliament to be called back before Christmas to look at hate speech?

Webster

Yes, specifically, that was before, but that was before he had called a Royal Commission...

Aly

... but you were calling for a Royal Commission as well.

Webster

... Yeah, that's right, but now that he's finally called a Royal Commission, isn't it sensible to wait until that Royal Commission comes out with findings? So sorry, there is no rush.

Aly

I just want to be clear on this, sorry, I'm just trying to get my head around it. So your position was in the absence of a Royal Commission, we should rush through legislation, but now that we have a Royal Commission, we should wait a year, and then however long it is extended, to pass legislation that was previously urgent?

Webster

So, we called to go back to Parliament urgently in December that could have given us enough time. You've got to understand, and I hope your listeners understand this kind of complex constitutional law, as you rightly pointed out earlier, takes time. You need to have inquiries. You need to have stakeholders around the table. Look, even the head Muslim group, I'm just going to try and find the proper ...

Aly

... I think you might be talking about the Australian Federation of Islamic councils?

Webster

Yes, that one, and also the Jewish Council of Australia. They are calling for a delay on this legislation for very good reasons. People were called in by the government, as far as we hear, to have stakeholder meetings for 30 minutes last week. Couldn't take the legislation with them. It was the first time they saw it. Then they had to sign an NDA - non disclosure agreement - not to be able to talk about it with anybody else. This is how this government works. It is outrageous when you call yourself a transparent government. This is not transparency, and it is a three day inquiry - which is happening right now - to theoretically come back to us as parties, for us to discuss on Monday and then to go to speeches after we've done condolence motions for the Bondi victims - perfectly appropriate - then we will go into legislative debate. And I want people to understand that normally is 15 minutes per representative in the House.

Aly

Okay? So ...

Webster

no, I need to say this Waleed - five minutes ...

Aly

Sure.

Webster

... I understand that going to be cut down to five minutes and we are going to be guillotined.

Aly

Okay, so I understand your point about rush and delay and all those sorts of things. I get that you've stated that. I also just want to get you substantive concerns at this point. Is it just about process, or do you have specific concerns about specific things in the bill?

Webster

I have concerns about specific things in the bill, like you. I haven't read the entire bill. If you read the explanatory memorandum as well, it's well over 500 pages. I have tried to plough through it. I'm not a constitutional lawyer. Let me state that right up front. I have had some conversations with some legal friends and colleagues. However, there are serious concerns I think you raised earlier about the retrospectivity of these laws. I think that is a problem. I don't think that's where we should be at. I have ... I certainly agree with Andrew Hastie's view about, you know, one of the greatest things about our democracy is our freedom of opinion, our freedom of speech, our freedom of religion. You start hacking away at those things, and we pretty fast move into police state activity.

Aly

Isn't that what hate speech laws do? Isn't I mean, the Coalition has been making that argument for a long time. That's the nature of hate speech laws, especially if you want to expand them, and yet, that's what the Coalition was calling for. So it just seems strange that now there would be a free speech objection. I don't quite understand that. When did that pivot happen?

Webster

I think there's been ... No, I don't think there's been an agreement across the board in the Coalition for tightening up hate speech laws. I think antisemitism is the key issue, and that's what people need to remember here. This is not about everything else that The Greens will probably want to bring in if they're going to align themselves with Labor's legislation to get it through the Senate. Our concern is that we uphold our freedoms and that we deal appropriately with the hate speech that leads to violence that these ... this is complex.

Aly

...I understand...

Webster

You can't understand, you know, I'm happy to have the conversation. I'm absolutely happy to have the debate. I want to hear what colleagues have to say. I want to have the time to do that. We're not being given that time, and that is the disgrace on this government that they want to rush it through. They're going to guillotine the debate in the House and then send us all home Tuesday after one question time because the PM doesn't want to face any questions. It is a ... it's an incredibly disheartening space to be in, in a democratic and brilliant country. I love our country, and I want to ensure that the freedoms that we have enjoyed for a long, long time remain. The failure here has been the government not acting from October 7, 2023 I should say October, when those aggressive, awful protests started and the hate speech began. Now, how do we how do we control that? Some would say that we already have legislation that can deal with

Aly

The Coalition hasn't been saying that that's the point, and that's what I don't understand.

Webster

Well, the Coalition had a range of views, but maybe that's true. It wasn't, sort of projected.

Aly

Is this a Nationals - Liberal split? Are you saying there are splits within the Liberal Party? Was Susan Ley out on her own? What? What's going on?

Webster

I well, I can't tell you what ... I refuse to even comment on what the Liberal Party are doing. They can answer themselves.

Aly

So, are their divisions within the Nats?

Webster

No, in the National Party, I think you would find it pretty hard ... I mean, as I said, we've got a process to go through. Monday we will meet. I will be absolutely gobsmacked if any of my colleagues think that we should be agreeing and passing this law.

Aly

Okay, this is going to be fascinating to watch. Dr Anne Webster, all the best to you and your community, the people in your seat that have been through so much it is so difficult and have such a long road ahead. And we'll see what becomes of all the hate speech legislation and the to-ing and fro-ing and the debate there. I really appreciate your time. You've been very generous with it.

Webster

Thank you Waleed.

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